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their position and pain all too well. beth lost daughter rachel joy scott in the columbine shooting in colorado and her son craig witnessed the tragedy and survived. she joins us this morning from denver. good morning to you, beth. >> good morning. >> you know, it's hard for us looking into imagine what those parents are going through. you know, we just heard from our correspondent they have apparently set up a makeshift morgue and now the parents are starting to identify their children by pictures. you went through this a number of years ago. >> >> i did. >> what are they going through? that time of waiting there is mixed feelings. you have some hope. and yet, there is this impending doom that because you haven't heard from your child or there is no news about them that the worst is to be expected and for us it took exactly 24 hours for when rachel passed away to get a call from the coroner. we didn't identify her. they identified her through some fingerprints that i had made up as my kids were little. and she was identified that way. >> just the waiting, you say that it took you 24 hours. the
to student loans? are they out there? joining us is rachel cruise financial speaker and writer for the dave ramsey organization. good to have you this morning. >> good to -- thanks for having me. >> all righty. so these federal lending programs are designed to make college education more affordable. basically what's happening is creating a pile of debt. >> that's right. so many students are believing the lie that you can't be a student without a student loan. so they are just assuming student loans are are the only way to go to college. >> seems obvious what the down sides would be but let's put them up on the screen how are people winding up with so much debt? are there things they don't realize going into it. >> i think so. an 18-year-old doesn't con piewt that they may graduate with $27,000 in debt. that's just. >> or more. >> that's just the average. >> and more. the average is coming out to $27,000. i don't think an 18-year-old really realizes how much money that actually is. which brings us to point 2. i feel like if i talk to the 21-year-old version of them they always say i wish i h
ramsey rachel cruise. nice to see you this morning. >> good to see you too. >> so you have some tips that we can try to avoid breaking the bank because i think if you wait, you drag your feet, you kind of become rash and you end up spending too much. right? >> absolutely. yeah. the key here is to be intentional. so the best thing to do is to be on a budget this holiday season. so make a list of everyone that you are going to buy a gift for. and write a dollar amount next to their name and stick to that. so just be very very intentional. it's where your money is going. >> how do you stop mission creep though? because that happens in our family. we draw up the spreadsheet and say look we are doing one gift per family member. this is what we are doing this year. and suddenly it's two and it's three. how do you stop that from happening? >> yeah, it's a good question. you just have to be intentional again and stick to what the budget says you have to say no matter this is what we are doing. great thing to do is to use cash so you can actually cash out the amount of money that you plan to
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